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2809 No. 2809
Hello, typical girl problems here. I've been trying to find a girlfriend for over a year now, and taking girls on dates regularly. I'm an attractive and on the surface confident person, so I've never had any problems having one night stands or introducing myself to women in order to get a first date. The problem is that I can never seem to hold their attention, I am universally considered an "awful texter", I have interests that others might regard as a bit eccentric (quiz bowl, sailing, "weird" music, really into math, science, etc.) , and I can be a bit geeky at times. Whatever right? As long as I'm sure of myself I should find someone compatible. Nope, despite having dated more women over the past year than most of my friends have in their lives, I haven't managed to get even a third date with a single one.

It seems to me in my experience over the past year, having spent at least 1500$ on around 20 women by my estimation, with an inordinate amount of blowjobs and occasional sex, that the 21st century woman doesn't want a relationship, at least in general. Women want to be entertained, not loved or even appreciated. Which brings me to my question: How can I better entertain girls? I'm pretty sure that I'm losing a lot of points by not responding to texts within the hour, but I'd like to know some tips that will actually make a girl want to hang out with me. All of my interactions with the opposite sex are initiated by me, and I'm exhausted from putting all this effort into meeting modern girls who are more than happy to give me head on the first date but are terrified at the thought of any serious intimacy. Need tips for actually hooking 'em once they're already on the line.

tl;dr, How can I hold the attention of the opposite sex after initial attraction has worn off?
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>> No. 2810
An approach that begins with overgeneralizing women's desires and ends with trying to quantify the effort you put into dating is a direct path to PUA idiocy. Don't be that guy.

There are women who have the same interests you do. They often don't hang around guys who have those interests because these troublesome errors are very common to problem-solving introverts. Find one of those girls, and treat her as a person rather than a goal, and things will sort themselves out.
>> No. 2813
What >>2810 said. Don't try to change yourself for a woman, it will only lead to an unhappy relationship. Find a woman who will love you as you are. You may have to dig a bit and you may have to lower your standards of beauty, but in the end it will be worth it.

>>the 21st century woman doesn't want a relationship, at least in general. Women want to be entertained, not loved or even appreciated.

The thing is, being loved and appreciated is incredibly easy for pretty young girls. Any guy could give her that so why should she pick you over the others, ya know? To get a girl to love you back, you have to offer more than just love and appreciation, because nice devoted guys are everywhere.
>> No. 2814
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2814
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with your goal, OP, so long as it is well balanced. The above two respondents are correct, in that you shouldn't change yourself or stop expressing your interests to focus solely on being "entertaining" as that won't get you a meaningful relationship, it will only lead to a more intense form of the frustration you are currently feeling.

That said, there is nothing wrong with changing your approach a little. You can still be you, express your interests, and look for that deeper connection, but it could very well be possible that you need to change how you convey yourself and your interests/needs/desires. Change the packaging, so to speak, but don't change what's inside.

Take a look at the way you interact with girls on dates. Take a look at how you communicate your expectations and needs regarding relationships, and take a look at how you convey your interests and personality. Maybe there is something you can do to change or brush up your communication style to make your admittedly esoteric interests more engaging and approachable.

For example: it's important when relating and connecting with someone to keep in mind that commonalities can be found in all kinds of things. OK, so you like science and math. But what do you like about those things? That they're challenging intellectually? That by learning about them you gain a greater understanding of the world? So talk about that. Use emotive, feeling-oriented language to talk about why you like the things you like. Then, even if the girl in question doesn't necessarily share your interest in science or quiz bowl, she could still connect to the reasons those things resonate with you; maybe she too has interests that fire her up because she finds them intellectually challenging... then you two could connect not on shared interests directly, but on shared values, a shared desire to be challenged and see the world in new ways...

An example from my life: I, like you, enjoy "weird" music. Ambient, drone, noise, black metal, sound collage, and so on. One thing that I like a lot in music is a strong sense of atmosphere, a feeling that the sound creates a landscape or occupies a physical space, has depth. So with a girl I was dating for most of last year, we couldn't share specific ambient musicians we liked (because she was mostly into folk and indie rock), but by sharing what it was about that music that appealed to me, she was able to talk about the qualities of the music she listened to (the emotional rawness, the soothing quality of quiet acoustic music, and so on) and we were able to share and connect about that. Even though what we enjoyed was different, it felt pretty intimate to be able to talk about why certain things resonated with us.

I feel like at a couple points in your post, you seem to be blaming women for wanting to be entertained rather than wanting a deeper connection. But you are only going on two dates tops with these people. First dates, as far as I'm concerned, are supposed to be about fun above all else. You can't sit down at a first or second date and expect to connect on this deep, immediate, spiritual level. What first (and second, and probably third) dates are for is seeing how compatible you are with someone on an immediate level. "Do I have fun with this person? Do I feel comfortable with him/her? Do we laugh together? Does conversation come easily? Does physical chemistry come easy?"

Another thing: you seem to use the fact that these girls blow you on the first date as evidence that they don't want some thing deeper. But keep in mind: they may be blowing you on the first date, but you are getting blown on the first date. You are just as responsible for that happening as they are. So they're willing to blow you on the first date and that means they just want a shallow, entertaining relationship? So what does that say about you that you are getting blowjobs on the first date while professing to want a deeper connection? Maybe you need to take a step back here. If you don't want to date girls who give BJs on the first date, then stop being a guy who gets BJs on the first date. Take things slower physically. Hold off in that respect. Sure, physical chemistry and attraction are important, especially early in the relationship, but that doesn't mean you have to blow a load in the girls mouth on the second date. Some kissing, some necking, some hand-holding. If it's difficult to keep things from escalating, then don't take them back to your place/car. Stay in public so you're not tempted to let things go farther than a little kissing.

And spending $1500 on 20 girls over a year? That's easy to fix. Free or dirt cheap dates are often way more fun anyway. Meeting for tea somewhere costs you like $2. Building a snowfort and then kissing in it or having a snowball fight costs nothing. Going on a short hike costs nothing except maybe a little gas. Going for a picnic at the beach costs $5-10 for snacks, which you can split with your date. Sharing a bottle of wine or a 6 pack of beer in a park costs like $12 (if you're not picky about wine), and again that cost can be split. Don't spend much money on a first or second date because it will only make you resentful if things don't go anywhere with the girl.

This turned out to be a fairly long post, so here's the gist of it:
- Take a considerate look at how you are presenting yourself. This doesn't mean you have to change anything about who you are or what you share, but how you share it could be brushed up. You can touch up the packaging without changing what's inside
- First and second dates are supposed to be about fun above all else; don't blame people for just focusing on having a good time and seeing how you two vibe on a first date. In fact, try to focus more on that yourself.
- You are just as responsible for the quick, shallow sexual encounters on first or second dates as the girls are. If you don't want it to happen, then don't lead the date there. Lead it somewhere else, like lots of joking around together and a little kissing. Stay in a public setting for the first few dates if it is hard not to let things escalate in private.
- Cheap or free dates are fun and easy

I hope something in here is helpful and resonates with you. If you want me to clarify anything in this rambling post, feel free to say so. Good luck on your quest for deeper, richer connections.
>> No. 2815
>I am universally considered an "awful texter"
>I'm pretty sure that I'm losing a lot of points by not responding to texts within the hour
Considering that I did just fine when all I had was a house line and no cell, I think you'll be OK.

What makes you an awful texter? If you feel you don't respond fast enough and this hurts your chances then you have two options: respond to texts faster OR be up front about the fact that you're a bad texter and don't like carrying your phone around. This can be conveyed in a confident, attractive way (you like to focus on what you're doing and who you're with at a given time and don't like to be constantly distracted by your phone, but you do respond once you are free to do so)
>> No. 2819
>I've been trying to find a girlfriend for over a year now, and taking girls on dates regularly.

I just think that how people set out these goals is off, I mean you sound a bit like Terminator; your mission is to find a girlfriend at all costs. I mean, does it even matter who the girl is? Semiotics I know, but this sentence tells us thousands of things about the approach and ideas behind this.

But this is what we like to do, sit down and say "I'm trying to find a girlfriend", as if we just need to keep hammering away until we find someone that can tolerate us and vice versa.

And the real trouble is, that we are not born with an innate desire for a girlfriend/boyfriend. We're born with an innate desire for a fluid and strong support network that is made of several varied relationships. A few people want to jump straight to the endgame of having a girlfriend; people leave the house in search of a girlfriend. Why don't you leave the house in search of friends? Rather than trying to find 'the one' why don't you try to find yourself amongst loads of other people having fun and helping each other?

Then plenty of people that suit you will arrive, and you won't bat an eyelid about money or whatever.
>> No. 2820
>>2819
I think your analysis of human motivations are off. People have gone a-courtin' in search of a mate for, well, ever. The singular goal of finding a partner is nothing new. Yes, what you say about working on building meaningful connections in all aspects of life and not being so focused on the goal-oriented "MUST FIND GIRLFRIEND" aspect is very very VERY true, but there's nothing wrong with going out on dates either. Yes it's a bit contrived, but it also works.

That said, OP, you really really do need to listen to >>2819. There is a lot in this perspective that you should pay attention to and incorporate into your life. Focus on building a supportive network of likeminded people around you, without being so singleminded about finding a Relationship, and in all likelihood you will not only be happier and more fulfilled but you will have a much better chance of meeting someone with whom you connect emotionally, intellectually, and physically, and it will probably arise much more organically than dating, which is, admittedly, a little contrived.
>> No. 2829
Dammit, OP, come back and at least acknowledge that you read some of the fantastic and varied advice you received.
>> No. 2832
>>2829

Thanks for your responses everyone, a lot of what you all said is true. I'm holding these people to a double standard, and I need to do some self reflection to decide what it is that I want. To put it in a nutshell, I've been looking for deep connections while I am emotionally unavailable myself, lying to them to make myself appear better in both their eyes and my own.

The only point I would disagree with is >>2820 saying that dating is contrived. In this world of instant communication, I relish every date I go on. There is no better way to genuinely communicate with someone then to spend one on one time with them for a few hours, and many of the best times of my life have been precisely this. Yes it can be awkward and forced sometimes, but it's worth every moment to be able to express yourself without restraint with someone who cares occasionally, without the anonymity of the internet.

This is off topic, but it's easy for people to be open through text because the mode of communication acts as a shield, but on a date you are essentially laying your character down in front of someone in an act of relinquishment, both passively and actively being judged.
>> No. 2833
>>2832
Hey, OP, thanks for the response. Just to clarify, I didn't mean that dating is contrived in any kind of a negative way. Just that the whole structure of saying "I like you, you like me, let's go spend some time one-on-one to have a conversation in the hopes that it will eventually lead to meaningful relationship and/or sex" has some inherent awkwardness. But I, like you, relish that directness, even if it comes with a bit of awkwardness.

By "contrived" I meant that dating is a almost-always-necessary framework that we kind of step into for a while on the path to developing a deeper relationship with someone. And I, like you, enjoy that directness even if sometimes it can feel a little forced or awkward at first.
>> No. 2834
>>2832
And I should also say you seem very capable of compassionate self-reflection. Keep that up and you'll do fine.
>> No. 2849
I think that searching out for love is an some ways, a fickle thing to do. The best advice i can give any body about not just getting the girl, but the right girl is to focus on yourself and the life you lead alone. You will always bump into other people as you live your life. The further out you venture the more chance that you will meet that person. Sometimes that person you didn't expect at first, and sometimes its so instant that you feel punch drunk on infatuation. But at least in good time, i must believe that love is for the best of us all to experience.


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