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/docta/, /docta/, gimme the news
I've got a bad case of lovin' you.



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2519 No. 2519
Hey /docta/, I've got a problem that's kind of blind sided me. My bf and I have been going out for about 1.5 years. I'm a deist (I believe in a god, but really nothing else) and he is a Christian. When we first started dating, I was upfront about my views and so was he. For him "as long as you believe in something, that's okay". A couple of days ago I asked him if he expected me to go to church with him. My wording was kind of blunt, but I didn't realize how much it would upset him until he told me. He asked me why I didn't want to go to church, I told him that the religion I grew up in was enough experience to never want to go again, that I didn't believe in that kind of dogma anymore and I believed organized religion was harmful. All true, and I have never told him otherwise or hidden any of that. He said that going to church was important and it was wrong of me not to want to try religion again based on my past experience. I reminded him that I had attended church for a few months when we began dating. I didn't get anything out of it except for social anxiety.

When I asked if he had issues with our atheist, agnostic and otherwise non-organized spiritual friends, he said he could accept their beliefs more easily because he wasn't building a life with them. He also said that religion wasn't something he would compromise on and he'd already been making an exception for me. I need a little perspective on this. To me, this seems wrong - I usually listen and read skeptical/atheistic material, but I don't bring it up with him and I don't listen to it with him around. I try to be understanding and I myself don't talk about my views with him because it's a sensitive issue. I feel that I've tried to be tolerant, and I'm being rejected almost arbitrarily. If this has been an issue for so long, he never told me or made it apparent to me. I find it a little disturbing that as a "good Christian" he feels he needs to reject my views and me and tell me I'm in the wrong. I've never seen him behave like that and I'm worried that maybe it's deeper than I know.

What would you guys do? I don't have an issue with him or his religion, I wish that we could talk openly about religion and skepticism, but it hurts a lot to hear that he can't be more tolerant of my views, because they don't align with his. I'm going to have another talk with him tomorrow and I guess I'll find out more, but I could really use perspective on this.
>> No. 2520
Forgive me, but I'm going to play armchair psychoanalyst for a minute here.

You say that you feel like you're being rejected arbitrarily, but from the way you describe it, it doesn't sound arbitrary at all.

It sounds like having a partner who's a Christian is a really important priority to him, and he's been neglecting that priority for you- probably because he cares about you very deeply. But it sounds as though it's getting more and more difficult for him to ignore that need. For him, the best-case scenario is for you to convert. That way, he gets to continue his relationship with you, and he gets to date a Christian. Win-win. Rather than rejecting you, he's trying to conserve his relationship with you while changing some of the already-established parameters of the relationship.

Of course, this isn't fair to you at all. Your deism is something he can't accept, so he's compartmentalised it and considers it something separate from you - something that can be removed without changing or diminishing you. So to him, he's not rejecting you at all- he's rejecting this foreign belief that has somehow gotten into you. He's ignoring (or doesn't understand) the fact that your deism is a part of your identity, and that to remove it, even if that were possible, would fundamentally change you.

So, you're partially right. He is rejecting you. He just doesn't realise it.

My advice to you would be to tell him, as clearly as you can, that he can't pick and choose which parts of your identity you're going to keep. You come as a package, and if he doesn't want all of you, then that needs to be made clear so you both know where you stand.
>> No. 2521
He is putting his principles above your relationship. Do the same.
>> No. 2522
It's likely that this will get worse over time, because if the seriousness is in building a life with you, then he would prefer to build a life with you as a Christian. I think, obviously, he wants you to arrive at the conclusion that his religion is correct and that you would arrive in a truthful sense (genuine belief over just doing it for him). I personally would avoid a situation in which I would be better to someone else if I, in short, agreed with them.

It sounds quite highly strung, I suppose his reaction is suited to someone that is quite fixed in their beliefs. Relationships are viewed normally as far closer to our hearts than friendships, I don't know why, but if he's looking towards marriage it then becomes an incredibly important thing that will last for the duration of your lives, in theory.

Hopefully the most helpful thing I will say; his views include not being supportive of your views.
>> No. 2524
Speaking from a Christian's perspective, we are taught that God will look more favorably upon us if we hitch up with a fellow believer. This will theoretically lead to more happiness in the long run, etc. It's not you as a person necessarily, it's just what he believes.
>> No. 2634
>>2521
+1
>> No. 2637
Talk to him about what he meant by exception. I'll be the contrarian voice in this thread and say that if he's willing and has been accepting you despite your differences-- which any couple will have by the way, sometimes bigger differences than this-- then that speaks volumes about how he feels about you. Give it a chance!

>>2524

You can't speak for what he believes, there are many many different varieties of christians. He sounds like a very tolerant person, embrace your differences OP and communicate with each other honestly without being inconsiderate. You should know that he is also likely facing at least some pressure from his community to be with a christian if they are aware of you beliefs.

I guess what I would try to emphasize here is that if you want your relationship to be happy you should affirm what you believe without passing judgement on him. If he is truly christian he should understand that, and do the same for you.

Speaking as a non-christian, would it be so bad to go to church with him at least occasionally? I go on easter and christmas just to ease the minds of some of my family, sometimes the sense of community and reverence can be quite refreshing, depending on the church.
>> No. 2638
>>2637

As an addendum, perhaps he feels that your skepticism is weakening his own faith. Suggest to him that faith without doubt would be certainty, which is impossible in this context. His being able to be in a relationship with you despite your non-religious spirituality could make him a much stronger believer.
>> No. 2675
I don't know if you'll ever read this but I might as well share my experience. I was in the same situation as you--mostly. She was a christian and I was an atheist (and still am, for the most part). Our relationship was pretty good, sure we had our ups and downs but we always made things right.

But she was never able to get over the religion aspect. She wanted me to go to church with her, and I did. I didn't really get anything out of it, mostly it just made my own beliefs firmer that I definitely wasn't a christian.

Now if your boyfriend is anything like my ex, he is pretty firm in his beliefs and won't be changing them any time soon. Whenever I tried to talk to her about my beliefs it made her extremely upset, and it seems like it's pretty much the same for you. Honestly, this gap between you two probably won't ever be able to be closed because your feelings about religion and his will always clash, and the only way I ever see it getting better is if either of you adapt one another's view about religion.
>> No. 2759
So I'm just going to say this how it is and not fluff it up too much: your relationship isn't going to work out. Multiple reasons.

1) Christians are supposed to marry other Christians. As someone else has already mentioned: it's the whole being equally-yoked thing. A Christian cannot expect to have deepest intimacy with someone whom does not share what is supposed to be the most fundamental component of their being: namely relationship with and salvation through Christ.

2) He's an idiot. This isn't your fault. He never should have dated you in the first place if he actually had convictions regarding your lack of piety. Chances are he acted like he didn't care because he really liked you and figured he'd bring you around eventually - standard immature tactic - or he's since become more serious about his faith than he was when you began. Missionary dating is the colloquial term for Christians who date non-Christians in hope of 'converting' them. It is foolish and unbiblical. There is nothing he can do or say that will incline you to become saved - it is solely the grace of God at work. His expectation of you to attend church with him further demonstrates his immaturity, as he'd realize that church technically isn't a place that unbelievers are supposed to go. It isn't a problem if they go, but a Christian expected an unbeliever to go to church is like someone expecting their cat to jump in the bath - it is a naturally incompatible environment for an unsaved person - spiritually (from a theological point of view) and socially (from an unfortunate, social point of view).

So he is obviously an immature Christian - the absolute worst kind to deal with. He isn't going to drop his faith or affiliation, so he's never going to be comfortable with you in your present state. He was also terribly immature, both in a spiritual and relational sense, so date you under the presumption that he was somehow going to change you. I never ceased to be amazed at how futile people are in dating someone with the intent of changing them. It is self-defeating. Drop him now if he doesn't drop you, because one of two outcomes is inevitable, and you won't like either.

1) He's drop you. He'll eventually realize that this isn't going to work for him and drop you, and the longer you're together the more painful that becomes.

2) He'll never grow the necessary spine to break the relationship, because he is terribly codependent upon you yet likely spiteful or passive-aggressive toward your obstinate position against his faith, and you will probably become disgusted with him and drop him then. Of course I'm making great assumptions on his person, but I see this kind of thing all the time and it really aggravates me.

So, I am sure what I just said could be terribly misinterpreted. I was being very blunt, and if your immediate response is in indignation or insult then you probably misinterpreted, so go read it again a little more carefully and try to read it in the most positive light you can manage.

As a sidenote: good Christians are the ones that do insist that they have the true path. It is a core tenant of the Christian faith (John 14). The monotheistic religions are intrinsically incompatible with the religious pluralism - i.e. all paths lead to God/salvation/happiness/whatever - that characterizes western collective thought today. It's more colloquially referred to as 'tolerance' but tolerance is not mutually exclusive with assertion of truth, philosophically speaking. He has been quite tolerant with you if he has dated you in spite of his disagreement with your beliefs for over a year. If you want to date someone who really doesn't care what you believe, go date a Buddhist, Hindu, or follower of any other Eastern religion. Religious pluralism is compatible with their beliefs. Alternatively, it would probably be in your best interest to date another deist like yourself. Hope this is helpful. I wish you all the best.
>> No. 2761
People who say "tenant" when they mean "tenet" should be thrown into a lake of fire to suffer for all eternity.


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